Going into that round you have current 1st vs 2nd, 3rd vs 4th etc.
But then depending on the result of that final game, 1st could win and become 3rd or 4th (Depending on how close the ones below were and if they won better), the previous 2nd position can plummet down the table.
It always seemed odd that the "top" table were not playing for 1st and 2nd.
Even odder, rarely has the final 1st and 2nd played each other throughout the tournament.
Now this is a symptom of every Swiss ranked tournament, and they are great as everyone is using the same scoring metric etc.
But got me thinking, are there alternatives and are they workable?
Any one for Tennis?
If you take, say tennis or football knockout championships, where people play and are knocked out of contention for top spot, they also do have the 3rd and 4th play-offs for the bronze medal.So that system can be bastardised.
Problem is it only works for set number of players, ie: 16 (4 rounds), 32 (5 Rounds) or 64 (6 rounds).
"Knock-out" Style
Take 16 Player, you can run this as 4 (or 5 rounds with a first round as a group seeding round for 2nd)Advantages:
- Someone cannot try and submarine to avoid an opponent, as losing shifts their possible max position down
- People with full winning streak, will meet and play each other
- Winner would be the only person to win all rounds
- No such thing as a Draw, Draws would need to either be played out to a win/loss (ie if end of round 6/7 a draw, additional round added) or seperated by another means (Kill Points, Own Dead, Attrition, %US remaining/lost)
- Player buy in, would they lose interest as soon as they lost a single game, knowing they are now out of contention for a higher final position?
- Set player and round count:
- 16 (4 rounds),
- 32 (5 Rounds) or
- 64 (6 rounds)
Group Stages and Final
You can have all but the final round, the "group" stage, then "Freeze" tournament points as the 2nd to last round (ie round 4 in a 5 round Tourney).This would then mean that the top two are playing for 1st and 2nd, next two 3rd and 4th etc, meaning the final round is the finals with each player playing for a known end position.
Example of a 16 player 5 round tournament
Round 1 - the group round
Random selection for each Player - 1 vs 2 , 3 vs 4 etcPlayer 01 | vs | Player 02 |
Player 03 | vs | Player 04 |
Player 05 | vs | Player 06 |
Player 07 | vs | Player 08 |
Player 09 | vs | Player 10 |
Player 11 | vs | Player 12 |
Player 13 | vs | Player 14 |
Player 15 | vs | Player 16 |
Player 02 |
Player 10 |
Player 04 |
Player 12 |
Player 06 |
Player 14 |
Player 08 |
Player 16 |
Player 09 |
Player 01 |
Player 11 |
Player 03 |
Player 13 |
Player 05 |
Player 15 |
Player 07 |
Round 2
Each Winner is then Seeded into the 2 streams Round 1 winners opponents, seeded into opposite Stream to the Winners (to avoid early rematches) Can also Split/even out regions across the two streamsStream A
Player 02 | vs | Player 09 |
Player 04 | vs | Player 11 |
Player 06 | vs | Player 13 |
Player 08 | vs | Player 15 |
Player 10 | vs | Player 01 |
Player 12 | vs | Player 03 |
Player 14 | vs | Player 05 |
Player 16 | vs | Player 07 |
In Example Odds win
Round 3
Top 8 still playing for 1stStream A1
Player 09 | vs | Player 11 |
Player 13 | vs | Player 15 |
Player 01 | vs | Player 03 |
Player 05 | vs | Player 07 |
Player 02 | vs | Player 04 |
Player 06 | vs | Player 08 |
Player 10 | vs | Player 12 |
Player 14 | vs | Player 16 |
Round 4
Top 4 still playing for 1stStream A1&B1
Player 09 | vs | Player 13 |
Player 01 | vs | Player 05 |
Stream A5&B5
Player 11 | vs | Player 15 |
Player 03 | vs | Player 07 |
Stream A9&B9
Player 02 | vs | Player 06 |
Player 10 | vs | Player 14 |
Stream A1&B1
Player 04 | vs | Player 08 |
Player 12 | vs | Player 16 |
Round 5 - the Final
- Playing for 1st (Loser is 2nd): Player 09 vs Player 01
- Playing for 3rd (Loser is 4th): Player 13 vs Player 05
- Playing for 5th (Loser is 6th): Player 11 vs Player 03
- Playing for 7th (Loser is 8th): Player 15 vs Player 07
- Playing for 9th (Loser is 10th): Player 02 vs Player 10
- Playing for 11th (Loser is 12th): Player 06 vs Player 14
- Playing for 13th (Loser is 14th): Player 04 vs Player 12
- Playing for 15th (Loser is 16th): Player 08 vs Player 16
Results
Rank | Player | Wins (including Seeding Round) | Loss (including Seeding Round) | Total Games | Win (Knock out rounds) |
Loss (Knock out rounds) |
Knock out rounds |
1st | Player 01 | 4 | 1 | 5 | 4 | 0 | 4 |
2nd | Player 09 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 4 |
3rd | Player 05 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 4 |
4th | Player 13 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
5th | Player 03 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 4 |
6th | Player 11 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
7th | Player 07 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
8th | Player 15 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 4 |
9th | Player 10 | 4 | 1 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 4 |
10th | Player 02 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
11th | Player 14 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
12th | Player 06 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 4 |
13th | Player 12 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 4 |
14th | Player 04 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 4 |
15th | Player 16 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 4 |
16th | Player 08 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 0 | 4 | 4 |
Contentious points
Round 2 win, guaranteed "Player 15" min 8th spot.If it was not for the fact that "Player 10" got knocked out of the running for top spot in the 2nd round, but avoided playing "harder" opponents.
Losing in early rounds is more costly for end position.
So is it viable?
Depends....For a typical tournament where player count is unknown - nope not viable at all.
For a tournament with a known set number of players:
- 8 for 3 "knock-out" rounds
- 16 for 4 "knock-out" rounds
- 32 for 5 "knock-out" rounds
- 64 for 6 "knock-out" rounds
Possibly....
You have to ask your self and your players what you want out of the tournament.
For a find the best tournament, it is possible.
If no ranking points involved, it is possible.
But treat with caution as my gut feel is this is very Marmite.
Wow. That's complicated, but I understand your thought process.
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