Thursday 5 March 2020

Can Top Table play and end up 1st and 2nd?

I always found it odd that in a lot of tournaments the last round is the odd one.
Going into that round you have current 1st vs 2nd, 3rd vs 4th etc.
But then depending on the result of that final game, 1st could win and become 3rd or 4th (Depending on how close the ones below were and if they won better), the previous 2nd position can plummet down the table.
It always seemed odd that the "top" table were not playing for 1st and 2nd.
Even odder, rarely has the final 1st and 2nd played each other throughout the tournament.
Now this is a symptom of every Swiss ranked tournament, and they are great as everyone is using the same scoring metric etc.
But got me thinking, are there alternatives and are they workable?

Any one for Tennis?

If you take, say tennis or football knockout championships, where people play and are knocked out of contention for top spot, they also do have the 3rd and 4th play-offs for the bronze medal.
So that system can be bastardised.
Problem is it only works for set number of players, ie: 16 (4 rounds), 32 (5 Rounds) or 64 (6 rounds).

"Knock-out" Style

Take 16 Player, you can run this as 4 (or 5 rounds with a first round as a group seeding round for 2nd)
Advantages: 
  • Someone cannot try and submarine to avoid an opponent, as losing shifts their possible max position down
  • People with full winning streak, will meet and play each other
  • Winner would be the only person to win all rounds
Disadvantages: 
  • No such thing as a Draw, Draws would need to either be played out to a win/loss (ie if end of round 6/7 a draw, additional round added) or seperated by another means (Kill Points, Own Dead, Attrition, %US remaining/lost)
  • Player buy in, would they lose interest as soon as they lost a single game, knowing they are now out of contention for a higher final position?
  • Set player and round count:
    • 16 (4 rounds), 
    • 32 (5 Rounds) or 
    • 64 (6 rounds)

Group Stages and Final

You can have all but the final round, the "group" stage, then "Freeze" tournament points as the 2nd to last round (ie round 4 in a 5 round Tourney).
This would then mean that the top two are playing for 1st and 2nd, next two 3rd and 4th etc, meaning the final round is the finals with each player playing for a known end position.

Example of a 16 player 5 round tournament

Round 1 - the group round

Random selection for each Player - 1 vs 2 , 3 vs 4 etc
Player 01 vs Player 02
Player 03 vs Player 04
Player 05 vs Player 06
Player 07 vs Player 08
Player 09 vs Player 10
Player 11 vs Player 12
Player 13 vs Player 14
Player 15 vs Player 16
Ranking after 1st round, evens won, but to varying degrees, giving a ranking for seeding into 2nd round.
Player 02
Player 10
Player 04
Player 12
Player 06
Player 14
Player 08
Player 16
Player 09
Player 01
Player 11
Player 03
Player 13
Player 05
Player 15
Player 07

Round 2

Each Winner is then Seeded into the 2 streams Round 1 winners opponents, seeded into opposite Stream to the Winners (to avoid early rematches) Can also Split/even out regions across the two streams
Stream A
Player 02vsPlayer 09
Player 04vsPlayer 11
Player 06vsPlayer 13
Player 08vsPlayer 15
Stream B
Player 10 vs Player 01
Player 12 vs Player 03
Player 14 vs Player 05
Player 16 vs Player 07

In Example Odds win

Round 3

Top 8 still playing for 1st
Stream A1
Player 09 vs Player 11
Player 13 vs Player 15
Stream B1
Player 01 vs Player 03
Player 05 vs Player 07
Bottom 8 are now playing for a max position of 9th Stream A9
Player 02 vs Player 04
Player 06 vs Player 08
Stream B9
Player 10 vs Player 12
Player 14 vs Player 16
In Example Left side win

Round 4

Top 4 still playing for 1st
Stream A1&B1
Player 09 vs Player 13
Player 01 vs Player 05
Next 4 playing for 5th, 
Stream A5&B5
Player 11 vs Player 15
Player 03 vs Player 07
Then next for for 9th 
Stream A9&B9
Player 02 vs Player 06
Player 10 vs Player 14
Bottom 4 playing for 13th
Stream A1&B1
Player 04 vs Player 08
Player 12 vs Player 16
In Example Left side win

Round 5 - the Final

  • Playing for 1st (Loser is 2nd): Player 09 vs Player 01
  • Playing for 3rd (Loser is 4th): Player 13 vs Player 05
  • Playing for 5th (Loser is 6th): Player 11 vs Player 03
  • Playing for 7th (Loser is 8th): Player 15 vs Player 07
  • Playing for 9th (Loser is 10th): Player 02 vs Player 10
  • Playing for 11th (Loser is 12th): Player 06 vs Player 14
  • Playing for 13th (Loser is 14th): Player 04 vs Player 12
  • Playing for 15th (Loser is 16th): Player 08 vs Player 16
In Example Right side win

Results

Rank Player Wins (including Seeding Round) Loss (including Seeding Round) Total Games Win
(Knock out rounds)
Loss 
(Knock out rounds)
Knock out rounds
1st Player 01 4 1 5 4 0 4
2nd Player 09 3 2 5 3 1 4
3rd Player 05 3 2 5 3 1 4
4th Player 13 2 3 5 2 2 4
5th Player 03 3 2 5 3 1 4
6th Player 11 2 3 5 2 2 4
7th Player 07 2 3 5 2 2 4
8th Player 15 1 4 5 1 3 4
9th Player 10 4 1 5 3 1 4
10th Player 02 3 2 5 2 2 4
11th Player 14 3 2 5 2 2 4
12th Player 06 2 3 5 1 3 4
13th Player 12 3 2 5 2 2 4
14th Player 04 2 3 5 1 3 4
15th Player 16 2 3 5 1 3 4
16th Player 08 1 4 5 0 4 4

Contentious points

Round 2 win, guaranteed "Player 15" min 8th spot.
If it was not for the fact that "Player 10" got knocked out of the running for top spot in the 2nd round, but avoided playing "harder" opponents.
Losing in early rounds is more costly for end position.

So is it viable?

Depends....
For a typical tournament where player count is unknown - nope not viable at all.
For a tournament with a known set number of players:

  • 8 for 3 "knock-out" rounds
  • 16 for 4 "knock-out" rounds
  • 32 for 5 "knock-out" rounds
  • 64 for 6 "knock-out" rounds

Possibly....
You have to ask your self and your players what you want out of the tournament.
For a find the best tournament, it is possible.
If no ranking points involved, it is possible.
But treat with caution as my gut feel is this is very Marmite.

1 comment:

  1. Wow. That's complicated, but I understand your thought process.

    ReplyDelete